Home Defense

[opsec]

Oldsoldier,
   I suspect you may have had first hand experience in this. Any other thoughts you would be willing to share with the rest of us?

[oldsoldier]

Oldsoldier,
   I suspect you may have had first hand experience in this. Any other thoughts you would be willing to share with the rest of us?

Normally no.... but this is a good reason I guess to share/help others prepare.  As a combat vet. U.S. Army sniper/special forces. I had to do my job several times in combat. Being a sniper you get "up close and personal" even from a mile away. You never forget the faces in the scope, You remember years later. You sometimes see those faces in your sleep. But you do what you have to do, so having that training made my "incident" a little easier. I have had a CCW permit for 25 years, I also have a federal permit. Anyway back in 1994 I was in a convinence store in Nashville Tn. My wife and I were there for a "getaway weekend" I had just fueled our car and went in to pay and decided to grab a couple sodas to take back to the hotel. Thankfully wife was back at the hotel. While I was in the back of the store this guy came in with a sawed off shotgun and started to rob the place. He was waving the shotgun at everyone and screaming crazily. When he started ordering everyone into the back room and telling them to get on their knee's when they got in there, I made that "split second" decision to act. While still hidden behind a set of shelves( I could see him in the security mirrors) I draw my handgun, (Colt 1911) and snuck up an aisle, coming up behind him I yelled for him to drop the weapon and get on the floor. He whirled around bringing up the shotgun. I fired two shots one a heart shot ( first shot) the second/safety shot hit him in the throat. From 20' away. He was dead when he hit the floor. After a police investigation I was cleared of any charges, ( self defense) It was also found he was wanted for several other robberies ( video evidence) in several states. It seems he had NEVER left any witnesses alive.

[oldsoldier]

 Sorry ran out of room.  The detectives said had I hestitated to fire, chances are 7 people (me included) would not have gone home that night.  Now I AM NOT a hero. As a matter of fact I almost messed my pants. To this day I still have nightmares about it. I wonder what if............. But I realize I can not go back and change anything. I IMO was forced to take his life, I had no real choice It was him or me/us. As a human being with a concious ( spelling?)  will always carry that with me. BUT I am alive,other people are alive. My point is IF you ever are put in the situation of shoot/don't shoot. Hesitation can make the difference between life and death. Yours, a loved one, a friend, a innocent bystander.  Being there I can say, I'd rather what if...... and remember than the other option. Don't second guess yourself when deciding what to do. As the old saying goes I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

[opsec]

Thanks for revealing this. I like to think that I would have done the same thing. I have no reason to believe that I would not have, but I've never actually been there and done that.

On another subject entirely, your SF sniper experience is very intriguing to me, particularly your tracking skills. I'd really like to learn about the priciples of escape and evasion. Could I get you to make another post in this forum on that subject?

[hancocs]

Thanks Old Solider for sharing. I think you did the right thing and as Opsec said I to would think I would have done the same thing you did. When it involves other inocent people or love ones it makes pulling the trigger a little easier. You have an advantage with your training and I'm also intrigued by that. It would be interesting to see if you could share anymore comments on that.

[oldsoldier]

 Will be happy to share what I can. Tracking, E & E, IMO isn't really hard to learn. Explaining the how is a little harder. There is a web site that has free manuals I'll post itwhen I can find it I know it's www.stevespages_______________? If you check out the army Field manual on escape and evasion, and also check out the SAS tracking guide. They will give you a bit of 'BASE INFORMATION" I don't mind sharing what I can with you but unless you have a basic idea it's hard to tell you the "how to's" without giving you the "hands on". It's kind of like me trying to tell you how to build a swing trap with out showing you. It may work it may not. OR having your wife's Doctor telling you how to do a hystorectomy over the phone and then you doing the surgery in your kitchen. I know my examples are kinda far afield. But maybe you get the idea. Once you have a little base info if you don't already have it. I'll try to answer any questions and offer some "tips" to help you learn. By the way my instructors at Benning recommended we all read the SAS guide to tracking, to help us understand better what we were going to learn. 

[oldsoldier]

 The site I referred to is www.survivalmonkey.com/field_manuals_in_pdf.htm

[opsec]

OR having your wife's Doctor telling you how to do a hystorectomy over the phone and then you doing the surgery in your kitchen.

     

I'm not a complete newbie to the subject. I've spent a couple days with a professional tracker who learned his trade working with the Israeli IDF and he gave me the basics. He told me I had a pretty good grasp of the basics. I've also read other books and seen other videos on tracking and evasion. The problem is I can't tell what's legitimate info and what might be planted disinformation. Let's approach this from the other direction: What distinctly bad advice have you seen either in print or video that you know to be patently false? What are the other less-than-obvious mistakes to avoid making when you are E&E-ing? What kind of things do untrained evaders do that trained escapists have learned to avoid?

[oldsoldier]

OR having your wife's Doctor telling you how to do a hystorectomy over the phone and then you doing the surgery in your kitchen.

     

I'm not a complete newbie to the subject. I've spent a couple days with a professional tracker who learned his trade working with the Israeli IDF and he gave me the basics. He told me I had a pretty good grasp of the basics. I've also read other books and seen other videos on tracking and evasion. The problem is I can't tell what's legitimate info and what might be planted disinformation. Let's approach this from the other direction: What distinctly bad advice have you seen either in print or video that you know to be patently false? What are the other less-than-obvious mistakes to avoid making when you are E&E-ing? What kind of things do untrained evaders do that trained escapists have learned to avoid?

 Hmmmm.... good question. IMO ouside of military field manuals 95% of the books are BS. i have a couple of excellent one's I'll look up the title and let you know what they are. I may even have a couple I'll give you. Give me a day or two

[opsec]

i have a couple of excellent one's I'll look up the title and let you know what they are. I may even have a couple I'll give you. Give me a day or two

[hancocs]

Great site OldSoldier

I did some downloading and now I need to read and study up. I new to this so I more or less starting from ground zero. I do have a good connection with Opsec so I might be able to gather some information from him to. Your reccomendation on some good books would be helpful to me.

Thanks in advance.

[radioastro]

Our choices were similar to the op, but I opted for the much more common 9mm, and opted to train my wife on semiauto pistols. That has worked in our favor. We prefer inexpensive Taurus pistols, a PT92 for myself, and a PT111Pro for my wife.

I had to concur with the Mossberg 500 12 gauge, and also heartily endorse the Spec Ops recoil reducing, 6 position stock, especially if you intend to provide the weapon to a person of smaller stature, such as my wife. She handily fires 00 buck without flinching and without devastating recoil that prevents a follow up shot.

I also went for the rather venerable and definitely incredibly common and available ammo, 7.62x39 for our initial rifle caliber. My AKs are rock solid and fit with my training and with my capabilities nicely. The less expensive ammo has been a huge plus over the years, allowing much more range time than would have otherwise been available.

I also filled a different niche that the OP misses. I can't stress enough the need for .22 caliber rifles and pistols. These incredibly versatile weapons will serve so many purposes, at such a low cost, that I cannot believe the op completely missed them. With .22 rifles, you can easily become proficient at taking small game and pests (fox and smaller) at up to 100 yards. With .22 pistols you have a convenient, ethical and quick way to dispatch small farm ready domesticated meat producing animals, such as rabbits. 5000 rounds of ammo for this weapon can be had for less than the cost of a nice meal at a nice restaurant. You might fight once a day, 5-6 days a week, if you train with martial arts or something similar, but you'll be sure to eat at least 3 times a day. You want a convenient, inexpensive way to take game, and you want to understand it well.

I received a wonderful gift from a relative, a 30-30 lever action, that I outfitted with a scope ballistic corrected for 300, 200, 100 yard drops, and the appropriate new leverevolution ammo from Hornady, which fills a nice hunting niche to 300 yards.

With all of the above out of the way, I am constantly looking for a good .308 bolt action to fill my last niche, which is the true long range rifle.

[Beeherder]

Roger ALL that radioastro.

Agree on pump shotgun and .22 caliber rifles and pistols. Recently discovered that my presbyopia has affected my ability to accurately hit the target with the Ruger 10/22. The only thing good about the aging process is that it is better than the other option. This is really not acceptable since i have always been able to drive tacks with one of these. So, ???? what to do, what to do? Enter RedDot scope and 10/22 rail mount traded for with a friend and now with the help of some spiffy optics i can once again drive tacks. Note to self, get extra batteries for the RedDot.

It was really really a surprise to learn that my skill had deteriorated so much since last time that rifle went to the range with me. Lesson for me, regularly rotate use of each and every arm in the safe, making sure they still work and I can still work them. Wonder if they make a RedDot for my Win 30/30 lever action, because I suspect a similar accuracy drop off there too.



Goal for March: at least two range days.

[opsec]

+1 on the .22lr. Take a real good look at the CCI subsonic rounds. Very accurate. I get 1/2" groups at 25 yards with these coming out of a Marlin Papoose. Nice quiet way to take game or go varmint hunting. It's about as loud as somebody slamming a car door hard.

[Beeherder]

ditto on that subsonic ammo. That was why that rifle went to the range that day, just acquired a brick of those 60gr subsonic .22lr and wanted to see if they patterned different. Well, the grouping was > 3 inches and I thought it was the ammo. Handed it to that friend who immediately drove the tacks and held a very tight group. Aging, is not for the timid, dang it. Another techno solution for deteriorating eyesight is just fine by me. Progressive lenses are OK for pistol shooting but not so good for the long guns. The lesson for me is that even if you know how to do something you need to do it regularly just to be sure your skills are still "good enough".

eye definitely liked it better when the eyesight was 20/15, wish that was the only thing that deteriorated with age.