Author Topic: Wood stoves and tax credits  (Read 625 times)

MountainMeg

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Wood stoves and tax credits
« on: October 19, 2009, 07:35:21 AM »
Yippee! Hubby is finally on board for getting an alternative heat source.  :hug004:  Our house is currently all electric, so I've been pushing for a wood stove for the ground floor of our house. We're ruled out pellet stoves as they require electricity for the feed hopper.

Any suggestions out there on what to look for or good brands? Our entire floor plan is 1240 sq ft, with about 800 or so in the living room/dining room/kitchen.

Also, info for others considering this -- there is a tax credit in 2009 & 2010 for 30% of the cost of installing a high efficiency wood (biomass) stove up to $1500. Double yippee! (http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/...211307,00.html)

oscar615

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Re: Wood stoves and tax credits
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2009, 08:59:36 AM »
The link to the IRS page doesn't seem to work.  Could you repost it?
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opsec

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Re: Wood stoves and tax credits
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2009, 11:44:11 AM »
Make sure the stove is designed to actually put out heat. Some are designed to merely be decorative. Having the chimmney proffesionaly installed is definitely money well spent. Lehman's non-electric catalog has several woodburning cooking ranges.
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Ryder

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Re: Wood stoves and tax credits
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2009, 02:18:45 PM »
most modern woodstoves I would consider would have a flat surface for cooking/simmering the stew of the day. You probably have strict emmision controls so your choice of stove will be guided by what is available to meet the requirements. Check with your  insurance provider too. You might find that the install and stove pipe will cost as much as the stove. I feel lucky to be here in montna with very few regs and a house with two chimneys for our two woodstoves. We have two woodstoves but right now it is cheaper to heat with our co-op electric company than to buy or cut our own wood. Unfortunately that could change quickly. Some in montana are pushing for connecting our transmission lines with californias. Then we could bid against calif for our power rates.
Gotta learn how to knit socks and mittens if you want to survive in montana.

MountainMeg

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Re: Wood stoves and tax credits
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2009, 03:05:22 PM »
Trying again:  http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=211307,00.html

I **think** the tax credit would cover the stove piping and installation from what I'm reading.

Quote
Q. Is there a limitation on the amount of the residential energy efficiency property credit?

A. The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act eliminates the dollar limit on the 30 percent tax credit for alternative energy equipment, such as solar water heaters, geothermal heat pumps and small wind turbines, installed in a home. The cap generally has been eliminated for these improvements beginning in the 2009 tax year.

ARRA provides for a uniform credit of 30 percent of the cost of qualifying improvements up to $1,500, such as adding insulation, energy-efficient exterior windows, doors and skylights, certain water heaters, metal and asphalt roofs, biomass stoves and energy-efficient heating and air conditioning systems.

If you're considering other energy-saving home improvements, here are the others that are covered under the tax credit with the $1,500 limit.  Solar and wind energy has no cap on the credit.

Quote
What improvements qualify for the enhanced residential energy property credit for homeowners?

A. In 2009 and 2010, an individual may claim a credit for 30 percent of the cost (subject to the overall credit limit of $1,500) for the installation of the following qualifying products:

    * Energy-efficient exterior windows, doors and skylights
    * Energy-efficient heating and air conditioning systems
    * Insulation
    * Water heaters (natural gas, propane or oil)
    * Roofs (metal and asphalt)
    * Biomass stoves

Being able to cook on the top would be nice, but not my 1st priority.  I've made other arrangements for alternate cooking fuels.

opsec

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Re: Wood stoves and tax credits
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2009, 03:47:20 PM »
Quote
I've made other arrangements for alternate cooking fuels.

Do tell. :confused002:
"The difference between a pessimist and an optimist is that the pessimist usually has more information"

"Where law ends tyranny begins. Where law begins, tyranny becomes legal"

"Truth is hate to those that hate truth".

MountainMeg

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Re: Wood stoves and tax credits
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2009, 08:17:50 PM »
Not fancy -- a wood stove cooktop would probably be better.  I have the gas grill with 2 extra propane tanks.  After propane is gone I figured on ripping out the burner and using it as a wood grill.

Harold in Kentucky

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Re: Wood stoves and tax credits
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2009, 01:11:50 AM »
Ahh.... Now this is a subject I can warm up to! (Sorry... couldn't help myself)

Seriously tho, Lopi is an excellent brand of stove. We've had two. One in our mountain home in SoCal and we just last year got one for our house in Kentucky after being here 8 years and freezing every winter. They're not cheap; however, any real good quality wood stove is going to cost from 3 to 5 thousand, including stovepipe and installation.

The one thing you absolutely do not want to do is get a stove from Home Depot or Lowes. They're made in China and within 3 or 4 years they tend to start having problems.

Lopi stoves are built to last a lifetime and are made in Atash's corner of the world. Other brands in a similar price range are also going to be well built. Keep in mind that you're investing in something that's going to be keeping you warm for the rest of your life with almost no maintanence and no moving parts to wear out. Spend the money up front, you'll be glad you did.

Good call on the pellet stove BTW. My sister has been through two of them in 6 years and the second one is giving her fits as it keeps breaking down. She bought good ones, but they have moving parts that wear out or break. Wood burners are simple and aside from having to replace the door gasket once every few years if it gets ratty, there's not a lot to worry about.   

The one problem we are having here is finding a chimney sweep. Most people here either do it themselves or just plain don't bother. A chimney fire is NOT the way to clean your chimey, but don't tell anybody around here that. Our roof is way too steep or I'd try doing it myself. So maybe check around for chimney sweeping services before you buy so you'll know if that's covered or if you've gotta do it yourself.       

Since you asked... here comes some more solicited advice.

Since your house is 1240 sq ft, get a stove that's rated at 1500 to 1600 sq ft. Don't let anybody tell you otherwise either. Stoves are rated at optimal conditions, that is, perfect insulation and windows, the best seasoned hardwood fuel, etc. If you get a stove that's rated as just even with your square footage and it drops below zero or maybe your firewood's not quite seasoned enough or any other variable, you're not going to get the heat you need from it.

Here in western Kentucky, wood is plentiful and cheap if not free. We've got enough wood in the yard for two years and it didn't cost us a dime, aside from some gas for my saw and a whole lot of sweat equity. Since we got our stove I've lost over 20 pounds doing all the cutting, hauling, splitting and stacking!! So besides the best heat in the world there's the exercise involved. Even if you buy wood from somebody, you still stack and carry and load the stove, so you will get some excercise regardless.

Another benefit is the cheerfullness of a fire. Most stoves have glass panels in the door so you can see the fire. It makes a big differrence in my outlook during the winter.

Here are a couple of links. This one is general info.

http://www.woodheat.org/index.htm

This one's a forum of wood burning enthusiasts. Fair warning, some of these guys are worse than computer geeks when it comes to stoves. But there's a lot of info to be found, just don't let 'em scare ya with all their gadgets and what not.

http://hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/

 

 
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Ryder

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Re: Wood stoves and tax credits
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2009, 01:28:50 PM »
Another thing to consider is how you get the wood from the woodpile outside to the wood stove. our full time residence in the woods for four years took a wheelbarrow full of wood a day in the winter. Luckily the stove was just inside one of the doors so I made a woodbox just inside the door on the other side. You won't belive how much bark, dust, bugs and stuff you can drop inside your house if you have to carry wood across a room. Our current house has a pass thru by each chimney. A small door on the outside....a space to stack wood and then a door on the inside of the house. Fill the woodbox up from the outside then simply open the door on the inside and put the wood in the stove.
  I currently heat my shop with a pellet stove that I took out of the house. Smoked the place up a couple of times and sorta caught on fire so out to the shop it went. Still works with ongoing maintenance and does put out a lot of heat. Has the drawback of needing electricity and it has to have pellets to work.
Gotta learn how to knit socks and mittens if you want to survive in montana.

opsec

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Re: Wood stoves and tax credits
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2009, 08:20:56 PM »
Quote
our full time residence in the woods for four years took a wheelbarrow full of wood a day in the winter

That's a little gold nugget of information. How many wheelbarrow loads to the cord do you think?
"The difference between a pessimist and an optimist is that the pessimist usually has more information"

"Where law ends tyranny begins. Where law begins, tyranny becomes legal"

"Truth is hate to those that hate truth".

MountainMeg

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Re: Wood stoves and tax credits
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2009, 08:49:30 PM »
Harold!  Where've you been?   :greet024:  Thanks for the information - invaluable. 

Quote
Fair warning, some of these guys are worse than computer geeks when it comes to stoves.

If that's the case, I'll send my engineer hubby to that forum!   :laughing002:  I figured I'd be in the 3-4.5k range on installing one.  I want it professionally done.  I've got $3.5k set aside for the project.  I can scrape up a bit more over the next few weeks, plus I'll try my hand at haggling since I'm ready to pay cash.

Quote
How many wheelbarrow loads to the cord do you think?

A cord is 4x8x4' or 128 cu ft.  I know I read somewhere that, when buying firewood, ASK if it's a "full cord" or "face cord".  Since most stoves take an 18-24" log a face cord could measure 4x8x2 instead.  Not quite the same thing!   :confused002:

http://www.woodheat.org/firewood/cord.htm

 

opsec

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Re: Wood stoves and tax credits
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2009, 10:01:57 PM »
I estimate that a wheelbarrow holds roughly 9 cubic feet. So that works out to about a cord every 2 weeks at Ryder's burn rate. Ryder, how close did I get?
"The difference between a pessimist and an optimist is that the pessimist usually has more information"

"Where law ends tyranny begins. Where law begins, tyranny becomes legal"

"Truth is hate to those that hate truth".

Harold in Kentucky

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Re: Wood stoves and tax credits
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2009, 11:28:16 PM »
Hey Meg! Have had way too many irons in the fire all year long. Things are finally winding down some so there's a bit of time to noodle around online lately.

Had another thought on your wood stove shopping....

Our first Lopi stove was the Endeavor model. Loved it, it was a real workhorse and it was pretty nice looking to boot. Back when we bought it my wife and I both had corporate jobs, so money wasn't a big deal.

This time..... we're running our own business and while we're much happier than we've ever been, we also earn a whole lot less money than before.

We really wanted another Endeavor, but it was kinda pricey for us this time around. While poring thru the specs and options of other models, we realized that the Republic 1250 was the exact same stove as the Endeavor, just in a plain black wrapper without all the "pretty" options. Fire box was the same, door/opening size, square footage rating.... everything.

So we ended up saving about 750 bucks going with a utiliy version of the stove we knew would do a good job for us.

Other stove makers may do the same kind of thing. Of course, you'd likely have to figure it out for yourself and then ask a salespersn about it. A "nice guy" salesman might volunteer the info and save you the money, but I don't count on stuff like that happening very often. Call me a cynic if you want....
 
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MountainMeg

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Re: Wood stoves and tax credits
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2009, 02:03:36 PM »
Thanks for all the advice.  The Lopi guy is coming out this week to give us an estimate on the 1750 stove.  We went a bit further out to get a dealer rated 5 stars by other Lopi customers.  So far, seems honest since he told me the only difference really between legs and a pedestal for the stove was you didn't have to sweep under a pedestal, and the pedestal was more expensive.

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Re: Wood stoves and tax credits
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2009, 10:25:09 PM »
 :greet025:

Hi Meg

Excellent choice on the pellet stove (NOT). People here like them because they think dumping a bag of pellets twice a day is easier than actually working with wood. And they are right about that but all you need is a delivery system that is dependable and a mechanic apparently.

Last year the propane only came on 3 times and this year I haven't lit the pilot light and may not. Wood heat is sooooo much more pleasant. I keep the house as warm as I like even on the coldest days and the ambiance is very real. However I don't have the kind of funds you folks are spending so I have gone through a stove about every 5 years. The new one was delivered today and I'll have its first fire in the morning when I can go outside to avoid the outgasing of that paint and other manufacturing residue. This one was purchased by catalog from Northern Tool for $475 plust $172 shipping. This one was made in Canada. It took about two hours to set it up and get it connected to my existing single wall low double-wall higher up stove piping. My piping is not enclosed so the single wall for the first 5 feet above the stove adds a little more heat exchange to the room. And this one came with an electric circulation fan which I may or may not use depending on how much I like it and how well it works.

A quality construction job for your chimney is probably the most important issue but once any wall or ceiling penetrations are properly done it will be relatively easy to change stoves if that is ever needed. A straight pipe chimney with no bends will give the best performance exceeding chimney lenghts of 25 ft can be problematic getting the draft going. Your choice to go with the best rated contractor is another excellent decision.

 

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