Author Topic: Everyone please read this  (Read 1138 times)

Horsea

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Re: Everyone please read this
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2009, 10:40:28 AM »
Hi, Mike; on the other hand, there is the tale of The Little Red Hen.  Sorry, but I want to double up with people who have my work ethic, who don't drink alcohol, who have a one-for-all & all-for-one attitude.  I am not saying that the "neighbors who have nothing" are layabouts and wastrels, not at all.  Just that I do wish to pick & choose who I am going to share a shotgun, food & garden with.  Don't you agree?  Actually, I don't like guns, so never mind the shotgun.  :laughing002:

Just doubling up might not be good enough.  We may have to live like the Hutterites.  Not that I admire everything about them (people have 'issues' with their phony religiosity and dishonesty toward outsiders; agribusiness-style farming, giant pig & chicken barns, etc.), but the point is they have some kind of ideology & ethnic background that keeps them together, not just pragmatism.  You have to find people who are just like you, culturally, to share the same piece of land.

By the way, when the good times are a-rollin', I guess there is no use pretending we are living in communal grass huts on the savannah; nothing inherently wrong with a house of your own if you can truly afford it.  But then we get into our debt-based monetary system and that's a whole 'nuther topic, I guess.

Anybody read the ideas of Ralph Borsodi?  He was distressed over the actions of robber barons of the early 20th Century, was esp. bothered by land being regarded as just another commodity, and founded an ideology of co-operative individualism.


http://www.cooperativeindividualism.org/loomis_borsodi_bio.html
« Last Edit: October 09, 2009, 12:15:46 PM by Horsea »
"Our 'neoconservatives' are neither new nor conservative, but old as Babylon and evil as Hell."  -Edward Abbey

opsec

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Re: Everyone please read this
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2009, 10:45:21 AM »
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•A crop failure in North America would have severe implications for global grain prices. The U.S. and Canada are the major global grain exporting countries. An early freeze in the grain belt, or a disease such as UG-99 (a wheat stem rust now threatening India), could severely impact crop yields. The U.S. experienced a major wheat crop failure due to disease back in the 1950’s; a repeat would be much more disruptive.
Historical trends in the Midwest indicate a severe drought occurs every 20 years or so (tree rings indicate this cycle has persisted for 600 years) – and it has been roughly 20 years since the last major drought. Some meteorologist also suggest a correlation between the sunspot cycle, the sun’s energy that reaches the earth, and long term weather trends – claiming the lack of sunspots can cause global cooling.

The “Maunder” and “Dalton” sunspot minimums correlated with the “Little Ice Age” of roughly 1650-1800. Global cooling trend would adversely impact growing seasons. The current sunspot cycle should have recovered from a low point of activity and resulted in dozens of sunspots by now – yet sunspots are eerily missing, and have been for about a year now. Scientists are unsure why this has occurred.

This is the scenario I am planning around. With this years late arrival of, and cooler than normal summer, I think this has already begun.
"The difference between a pessimist and an optimist is that the pessimist usually has more information"

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darwinslair

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Re: Everyone please read this
« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2009, 10:27:34 PM »
BPA here is over 200 per acre.  That must be a nation wide average.

even the Mandan/Hidatsa/Arikara managed 70 BPA with their corn. 

And that is North Dakota.  PLUS they planted beans and squash intermingled in it so there was more than just corn coming from any one plot.
Tom
If you can catch it and kill it, or grow it, dont buy it.

Beeherder

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Re: Everyone please read this
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2009, 09:24:31 AM »
 :greet025:

Oil is running out. 20 - 50 x energy for a 4:1 increase in production is of course not sustainable.

Thanks to "The Future" for that great analysis of the issue.

And Horsea has (IMHO) the right idea. We need a more cooperative culture. I grew up in a family of 4 in houses that were 800 -1200 square foot total area, no garage. There was plenty of room no matter which house and there were many many houses. Today I live in one of the smallest houses in my neighborhood at 1750 sq ft. Almost all the newer homes are over 3500 sq ft. Fewer people per square foot by a large factor, also not sustainable.

Andrew Jackson's Hermitage (his name for his home) took 150 - 200 people living on it to maintain and run it in 1836. I am not advocating for group living, but this current cultural direction is not sustainable. Cooperative group agriculture seems like a no brainer. Not only do you get higher yields for your combined labor you have more folks to protect the harvest. And there will always be some who think that their lack of effort and planning some how obligates you to take care of them so lets find a way to put these folks to work in our cooperative efforts. TANSTAFL ya know.

I know its idealistic but we need to try something different. And yes, I'd like to have some say about which folks are in my work crew but If there was the occasional misfit (maybe its me) we can still work together. And when I want a drink of alcohol in the evening I can take it away from those who might not want to be around that, same with some of my other bad habits. So long as we can maintain a modicum of privacy then our vices or virtures need not be on display for or toward others. Hope we can find a way to share while enjoying our individual privacy!

karch03

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Re: Everyone please read this
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2009, 07:59:40 AM »
How long can rice be stored without going bad? And why is everyone skipping around Kentucky? It's a great state with cheap land and great hunting.


Atash Hagmahani

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Re: Everyone please read this
« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2009, 01:03:25 PM »
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How long can rice be stored without going bad?

A year with no special preparation aside from keeping it cool, dry, and sealed from weevils. Several years if you do all that AND protect it from oxygen.

Quote
And why is everyone skipping around Kentucky?

Thanks for the suggestion.

Because none of the rest of us know anything about whatever strategic advantages it might have, because nobody's informed us. I dunno about others, but I am unable to travel at the moment, and have little means to scope anything out, especially that far away (actually, we're looking even FURTHER, but after being referred ideas from others who've been there...).

For a domestic bugout location, it would be good if we had...

* really cheap arable land (as in something I can pay cash for out of reserves)
* preferably a national border, for getting out of dodge if and when it become desirable or outright necessary
* favorable demographics in terms of the character of the neighbors, and potential for crime. While many of us are quite capable of self-defense, having to spend too much effort on that could become problematic for getting anything else done.
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karch03

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Re: Everyone please read this
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2009, 01:43:57 PM »
Atash,

Thanks for the advice on the upkeep of rice. I will have to look into stockpiling.

As far as land is concerned. I understand an acre to be approximatley 1.1 football fields minus the endzones. That being said 5 acres isn't much. Does anyone who is preparing know what is a good  plot size and what size may be too much for purposes of defense? As stated above water is paramount but the size is a concern for me.




Atash Hagmahani

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Re: Everyone please read this
« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2009, 02:53:40 PM »
I can't answer the defensive issue so someone else chime in.

5 acres is a nice size. That is supposed to be about the maximum that one able-bodied man with a pick-mattock combo can manage using purely manual labor (I think "40" is the figure if he has a mule to do the ploughing for him).

It is actually more than enough for yourself and your extended family and you could have some leftover to trade IF you are growing the right crops. The Irish reputedly fed 20 peasants per acre on potatoes. Potatoes are extraordinarily productive; that's why they are cheap. Be sure to eat the section right under the skin as that is where the protein is concentrated. They're only about 2% protein but that's enough to keep you from getting kwashiorkor (protein deficiency).

Anybody who wants to grow potatoes, get some Tom Wagner potatoes. Inquire offline. There are some logistical issues that need to be handled but I think we can take care of it. Might have to recruit some manual labor for digging.

Kentucky has warm enough summers to grow many types of sweet potatoes. Those have less protein than a potato, but far more vitamin A and are reputedly less glycemic despite their obvious sugar content! Might be nice to have both for variety. Their high caloric content would be good.

Other productive crops include some of the Brassicas like cabbage, collards, and kale (my cup runneth over), which by the way are all highly nutritious, being rich in Folacin, vitamin A, vitamin C, Calcium, and leaf-protein, strawberries (a plant that occupies 1 square foot will give you a few handfuls of fruit a year; not bad), tomatoes (make sure they ripen! don't end up with wasted green tomatoes), beets (I think these are roughly 2nd to potatoes), and rutabagas (which are more nutritious than their milder-tasting cousins turnips).

Think about it; there were reasons our ancestors ate so many potatoes and rutabagas. Most folks won't eat rutabagas anymore, but if you are a good cook you can actually make quite good use of out them. Problem was our average peasant ancestor just boiled 'em and ate 'em fairly plain.

Roasted root vegetables are pretty good; they slightly carmelize, and the dry-roasting dries them out a bit and concentrates their flavors.

I would not bother raising livestock other than chickens, maybe rabbits, and maybe some fish in a small outdoor pond--the problem being that there is no coldwater fish I can think of that is the equivalent of a Tilapia--an herbivorous fish that will live on your garden leftovers, and is an air-breather to boot!! But alas they can't take cold. Maybe carp are your next-best bet; I dunno. Not a fish expert.

In any case, there is a reason that "a chicken for the pot on Sundays" was a big deal. In real life, peasant farmers lived on exactly 1 pig per year per family; dried pork was a minor addendum to a mostly vegetable soup or stew with some bread. The pigfat was rendered with some lye leached out from wood ashes to create soap.

Chicken usually went to the landlord, and even that was mostly old hens turned into soup, and surplus young roosters.
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The Future

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Re: Everyone please read this
« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2009, 05:14:29 PM »
"new" potatoes have a decent enough low glycemic index but yes sweet potatoes reign even though the are sweet (fructose has a GI of only 19; all fructose must be converted to sucrose by the liver here it's low sugar raising properties yet it is sweeter than sucrose.  however too much of it has been tied to some liver issues).

don't forget to interplant pretty much everything with some leguminous crops.  Free nitrogen.  And if space is an issue, Wellspring and others have spilled the beans on how to grow a few hundred strawberries in a single square foot.  Yes, a few hundred.

Oh, and we love rutabagas.  Can anyone think of a crop that produces lots of calories that is tall (not corn and not a fruit tree).  Trying to come up with ideas for beans to climb other than corn which I repeatedly fair to get to grow.
Wise selfishness is taking care of everyone else so that they don't bring harm to you.

Atash Hagmahani

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Re: Everyone please read this
« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2009, 05:24:46 PM »
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Can anyone think of a crop that produces lots of calories that is tall

For you, and only you and other folks who live in subtropical or tropical climates, "air potatoes".

Dioscorea bulbifera.

You train it on an overhead pergola, reach up, and pick the "air potatoes". Some trouble to build the support but once you do harvesting is very little work.

NOW THIS IS IMPORTANT: THE WILD PLANT IS POISONOUS. And EXTREMELY weedy.

The domesticated version, grown in India by Jains, who don't like to rip up the soil harvesting real potatoes because it kills soil fauna (in violation of the principle of "Ahimsa" = "not to harm" in Sanskrit), is harmless. It is non-poisonous, which also means that it is incapable of becoming a weed, because stray tubers get eaten by animals if not humans.

The trick is to find it. Feral air potatoes in Hawaii and Florida are poisonous. You would probably need a contact in India. However, I do know someone who is a bigshot in the Permaculture business. He might know.

BTW, there is also an African version, but I've heard the Asian is more palatable. Thought you might be interested, or for that matter, have a contact there. I don't know where in Africa, probably somewhere hot and humid. The Indian version should do just fine in your climate even though the rainfall pattern is backwards.
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opsec

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Re: Everyone please read this
« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2009, 06:23:41 PM »
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Does anyone who is preparing know what is a good  plot size and what size may be too much for purposes of defense?

Anything within the range of your rifle is pretty much your personal property. The larger issue is situational awareness and having multiple defenders that can respond to a situation. One guy + one rifle = easy target.
"The difference between a pessimist and an optimist is that the pessimist usually has more information"

"Where law ends tyranny begins. Where law begins, tyranny becomes legal"

"Truth is hate to those that hate truth".

Ryder

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Re: Everyone please read this
« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2009, 08:58:23 PM »
We grew a garden in a canyon on the southern exposure side for several years. Lots of sun and I rigged up a siphon from the spring to irrigate part of it. Some was planted here and there among native brush and very little was in traditional rows. I used a troy built rototiller on some of it and was impressed on the ability of a rear tine gas tiller to make sort of terraces on hillsides. The soil must of had some nutrients because with just cow manuer and some secret mineral additives we ate quite well thank you. Now...the canyon part would have worked quite well for keeping watch for bothersome critters, 2 or 4 legged. One person sitting concealed across the canyon could see everything in the garden and around the cabin. That one person with the right equipment could deter most problems and even put some wild game meat in the stewpot.
  Now we live in suburbia and have deer sneaking around our 8 foot deer fence to feast on our non hybrid seed garden. In the hills we used 'irish spring soap' tied on posts and positive thoughts to keep the deer away.
Gotta learn how to knit socks and mittens if you want to survive in montana.

MountainMeg

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Re: Everyone please read this
« Reply #27 on: November 13, 2009, 10:36:25 AM »
Did Irish Spring work?