Near term Auto transportation ??

[Beeherder]

 
If a person wanted to own a vehicle here in the center of the continent (east to west anyway) that would most likely be affordable, reliable and have readily available parts what could be some of the options and why?

Thank You In Advance

[Ryder]

 Late 80's early 90's toyotas and subaru's. They go a million miles and you can buy parts at the local discount auto parts store. We have a 89 toyota camry station wagon and a 95 subaru legacy 4 wheel drive wagon. both have about 200K miles on them and both still work. I just sold a 84 subaru wagon with high and low 4 wheel drive that had 265K miles on it. Another of my weakneses is old Datsun pickups, tough and great for hauling. They are all getting old now tho. I look for a car or pickup built better than it needed to be and one that has parts available in the local discount store or wrecking yard. If you want a bargin buy a car with driveable body damage...amazing how cheap they are when they are ugly. Our 95 subaru with auto, AC and working four wheel drive cost $300.00 because it had been hit in the rear. $50.00 worth of plexiglass and sealer and a few hammer hits and it works fine. I always buy my vehicals from a private party.....no car dealers. Some folks claim they need a new car for reliability which is not so true, just talk to a tow truck driver to see what gets towed in. For reliability we have a membership in AAA which for 60 bucks a year will tow you in five times a year. We have used a tow twice in the last 8 years while driving all sorts of roads and weather here in montana.  Another place to get an opinion is at the local independent car repair place. Ask them what is a good car to own and how much it will cost for them to keep it running well.

[Mike]

It took manufacturers four years to respond to the 1979-1980 Shah of Iran gas crisis.  1984 was one of the very best years for mileage.  Cars were lighter weight and smaller engined than todays cars.  Newer cars are safer and come at a cost of additional weight.  Cars from the eighties are definitely not obsolete.  Unfortunately they are all worn out and some parts are not readily available.

Cars were computerized (OBD1) between about '84 to '95.  That was one more thing to go wrong.  But it did provide flash codes to give a clue as to what went wrong. 

1996 was the first year of 2nd generation On Board Diagnostics (OBD2).    Nowadays a laptop interface is cheap and we can read our own error codes.  That will sometimes really help diagnostics.  A friends car had a miss.  The computer said #3 cylinder was misfiring.  That eliminated checking the plugs and wires and two coils for all four cylinders.

I like Ryder's strategy of taking the Ugly Discount; also the Readily Available Parts convenience.

My dad's strategy was to go for Low Odometer at low cost.  Nothing else mattered.  The lowest odometer at the least cost.  He wound up with a herd of Simcas with low mileage.  Invariably the starter motors had failed at 40,000 miles and the previous owners couldn't find, or didn't want to pay for, a new one.  My dad would order them through Chrysler..... and wait.

In 1999 I systemetized my dad's strategy with this formula: Used-Car-Price/(100kmiles-odometer) = cost per trouble-free mile.  I bought a 60k miles 1984 Chevy Cavalier, wagon, 5 speed, 2.0 liters, with a bad clutch for $600 and paid someone $300 to put a new clutch in it.  So (600+300)/(100k-60k)=$ .0225/trouble-free-mile.  At the time, the lowest trouble-free cost per mile was running at about $.05 or $.06.  That Cavalier had the infamous pealing GM paint (Ugly Discount) and the Major Problem Discount.

In the formula:
Used-Car-Price/(100kmiles-odometer) = cost per trouble-free mile,
the 100kmiles is arbitrary.  The assumption is that any car will go 100k without problems.  A lot of cars will go a lot further.  One could be more realistic and maybe use 150k-odometer.  But I wanted a bias towards low miles on the odometer.

For freeway driving I'd recommend a Saturn with a manual transmission.  They are light for their size.  They are pretty comfortable and quiet.  The older ones have a 1957cc (2 liter) engine and their tall gear ratio gives good mileage.  All cars have their own characteristic problems, and Saturn's problem is cracked-head.  Before buying a Saturn, find out when they figured out how to make heads.  1996 still had the head problem.  A Saturn with oil in the coolant is not worth fixing.

For driving around town, and not needing to haul many people or much cargo I would recommend the 3 cylinder 1.0 liter Geo Metro.

[opsec]

I was once a delivery driver for an office supply store and the vehicle was a Geo Metro. I grew to really like that thing. It got 50 miles to the gallon and even though it only had 3 cylinders, it was still pretty zippy. It could move it's ass if you didn't ask to much of it.

[Beeherder]

 
Great stuff thank you all!

Mike, that is the most cognitive approach to automobile transportation i have ever seen. You deserve a great big boy scout merit badge for that one fella. Go tell you wife some crazy beeherder said you were owed a hug and then give her one.

refinement to my selection criterea: this will be my second vehicle, primary is single owner (me) 2003 GMC Sierra HD2500 w/102k trouble free miles and i expect to get another 100k trouble free from that 6.6L diesel by Isuzu with the Alyson Chalmers auto and of course 4x4. My avg mpg on that biodiesel run pu is 19.2 and slowly rising as i further adjust my driving habits and use less petrol diesel.

leg dimishment requires automatic transmission (non negotiable),
terrain requires front wheel drive, 4x4 acceptable,
terrain requires enough power to climb with average load,

prefer diesel power train, high mpg gas acceptable

more concerned with specific make and models to avoid like the VW TDI because of significantly high matenance costs, ugly fits my persona just fine thank you. I hate red cars!!

[Dame]

If you are driving dirt/gravel roads the spacing between the wheels is an issue.  Around here the best vehicle is one that fits in the north american 1/2 ton wheel ruts on the roads when they are wet or there is snow cover.

[Beeherder]

 

Great point. Road taxing district here and county maintained feeder roads all of sand and gravel, local maintenance team paid by the taxing district make sure there are no ruts. 300 homes, 1600 acres, surrounded by national forest and other even more tightly held private lands. TANSTAFL

Ran a 1986 Camry from 75k miles to failure at 186k miles, if i had properly maintained the timing belt it would have made 300k easy. Too late for that make and model now, need something less than 20 years old, dented is fine, and low odometer relative to cost is the best thought i have yet to see on how to approach this.

Thanks again to all who have shared your knowledge and thoughts.

[opsec]

Can you rebuilt the engine in that Camry? Or maybe drop in a crate motor? Might be cheaper than buying another car. You could put in a timing chain instead of a belt.

[Beeherder]

 

Camry bee dead and gone more than 5 years. 

One thing eye am considering is another 2003 - 05 GMC diesel pu as much like the one i have now as eye can find but that may not fit the affordability factor of my personal equation though it should be as plain as the redundancy in your life why eye might consider that as one option.

[Beeherder]

 

Ok, that was then, this is now. Then it was 300 miles per week and the occassional epic 600 miles/week, last year my total mileage was 6258. I like the idea of another biodiesel capable vehicle that gets 50 mpg but that TDI high maintenance cost history has me avoiding that one.

What others could i consider?

and just as importantly are there others to avoid?

Thanks again!

[Mike]

My dad had the infamous gm 5.7 diesel in a passenger car; nothing but trouble; replaced it with a Chevy gas 350 V8. 

Because you don't drive that many miles, getting really good mileage isn't that crucial.  You don't need a TDI or a 4 cylindr.  True, good mileage would be nice.  But since you don't drive that much; and are satisfied with the Duramax, I would stick with the Duramax and go with a clone, or near clone.

Here is an interesting thread on Chevy diesels.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-85290.html
My take-away:
The Chevy 6.2 diesel is NOT a glorified 350.  It is the Duramax predecessor.  The 6.2 may not be all that great for continuous heavy towing.

I find this ad very appealing:
http://kpr.craigslist.org/cto/1361176182.html

Thanks for the complements for my arithmetic of comparison for differing odometers. 

I was just thinking that there should be a similarly simplistic formula for adjusting a cars mileage and price based on how many miles one drives per year.  i.e. the fewer miles one drives per year, the less important the miles per gallon and the more important the initial price of the vehicle.

[Ryder]

I would consider previous owner care in buying a used car. If they maintained it or had a shop maintain it regularly the miles don't matter so much. We bought a car that a colledge bound young lady had been driving. Someone had maintained it for here quite nicely and replaced things like the starter, alternator and brakes. It wasn't too pretty and the electric window died so they sold it for $700.00. My wife drove it for two years and got payed by her work 50 cents a mile!!
  http://montana.craigslist.org/cta/  Here is the montana craigslist for cars and trucks just for comparison.

[Beeherder]

 

Can't remember maybe don't know who it was made such a point of it but GMC is not Chevrolet. One is made in Windsor the other accross the river in Detroit. One reason to make a point of the Isuzu 6.6L diesel is that this motor has been the standard heavy that's right heavy delivery vehicle motor in most of Asia for a decade or more now. Perhaps that's why they dumped the chevy motor and went with Isuzu and Alyson Chalmers transmission. IMNSHO most vehicles manufactured by an American company in the past 35 or 40 years are not worth the powder to blow them up. Quite a shame really to see an industry and the Union movement driven to nothing in just two generations. Yep, quite a shame, to see those dimmy craps and repuckmenots ship all the mills and jigs to the land of the chin so that they and their kin can bask in the sun while the rest bee done in.

and of course YMMV

me thinks its junk yards and such
i'll start my search for the not quite totaled
GMC HD2500 w/ 6.6L diesel, auto tranny,
and 4x4, who cares the bed and hope not red.

[MountainMeg]

For driving around town, and not needing to haul many people or much cargo I would recommend the 3 cylinder 1.0 liter Geo Metro.

Ah, the memories.     I had a little red one on a salvage title that I drove for years until someone rear ended me at a stop light.  (Ouch!)  Paid $2000 for it and $800 to add A/C when I moved to CA.  You wouldn't believe the hauling room that little roller skate has due to the hatchback design.  I drove that cross-country caravaning with a friend and fueled up every third time she stopped.  Hubby still teases me about when I pulled up to our first meeting in "that little red putt-putt" since I'm almost 6' tall and the car is soooo small.   

[opsec]

I remember on more than one occasion, pulling up the the office supply warehouse to pick up the store order. Everything would be there on the end of the dock and so would one of the workers who would invariably have a grin on their face and say "no way". I said "watch". I never had to make two trips to get stuff. That thing had about the same cubic cargo volume as my Blazer does.