Water

[wander]

So, one of the most basic supplies of life seems (to me) to be the hardest to become self reliant on. That is - water. In the city I live, it is illegal to own or operate wells. Has been for several decades. Until recently I didn't care - water is cheap here.
Outside city limits, wells are common place along with septic systems rather than sewer. Of course those are electric dependent, and the parts are fairly complex. I'm not real technical when it comes to this stuff, so it's a bit of a mystery to me. Of course I'm sure I'd learn if I moved out there. The major problem with moving out of the city - commuting to work becomes a major chore. My commute is only 20 minutes, which is nice. My wife's commute is about 30-45 minutes depending on traffic.
So my next though was the ecoloblue that is always raved about on prison planet. Still electric dependent, but with some kinda solar/wind power generation it might be okay. http://www.ecoloblue.com/en/store/ecoloblue28
Any thoughts?

[opsec]

I have looked into these and I like them. They just have one major drawback. They need fairly high humidity to work. They won't produce water in places like New Mexico or west Texas. You would also need a large unit to produce enough water for crops.

[The Future]

For crops, forget it.  You would need a large unit AND a large power supply AND high humidity.

If you can get outside the city, collect rain water.  That is illegal in some areas.  Either way given the US pollution situation (lost of all these defenders of economic output) you need a decent filter, RO with UV.  There are ways to make the system discrete is needed.  How many inches of rain do you get a year?

[Wellspring]

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So my next though was the ecoloblue that is always raved about on prison planet. Still electric dependent, but with some kinda solar/wind power generation it might be okay. http://www.ecoloblue.com/en/store/ecoloblue28
Any thoughts?

Wander:

The Founder of Ecoloblue is a client and friend of mine.  I can answer any questions you have about the AWG (atmospheric water generators).  They currently have a new generation that is more efficient and uses less power.  They are working on a overall solution for "off-the-grid" use.  The primary issues with cost-effective solar solutions is the battery.  These batteries are still the weakest link in any alternative energy set-up.

If you are interested in getting a unit, let me know as I can get you a discount.  I've got one at my home and office and love them for a pure source of drinking water.

[The Future]

the battery definitely.  water from air just seems too tech dependent to me as a primary source.  just like in permaculture, have multiple sources and in this case I would be using this tech as a supplement rather than primary one.

[opsec]

water from air just seems too tech dependent to me as a primary source.  just like in permaculture, have multiple sources and in this case I would be using this tech as a supplement rather than primary one.

Take a polaroid everybody. This is a rare instance in which I and The Future are in total agreement.

[Beeherder]

One of my friends over the hill on his own big rock paid for his land while slaving in town raising her kids from a previous life then built what is called an earthship. In some places its tamped earth but his is mostly cut from solid granite using a rented 80 lb jack hammer. He says the house might have been bigger but that thing was hard to hold onto. One of the features of his house is roof collection of melt off and rain water run off. He has 2500 gallons of stainless steel tank not visible from anywhere execpt inside the hole he dug for it. By allowing the initial flows to rinse and then using three stage filters and electric pumps driven from his battery storage charged by the wind generator that makes too much noise and the solar cell colletor mounted on the manually adjusted center pole system in his yard he says he only hauls water a few times a decade. And oh yeah he has a 300 sq ft indoor garden growning food year round and sometimes its really nice to have a fresh tomato that tastes like one in mid winter, mmmmmm

Two days ago a miracle occured liquid water fell from the sky on my big red rock giving about 100 gallons into my 2200 gallons of irrigation water storage mostly in stock tanks now getting old and failing by rustout. Yeah its against the law to capute runoff from my own roof but they will need to come tear it down cuz I'm not about to stop.

[The Future]

water from air just seems too tech dependent to me as a primary source.  just like in permaculture, have multiple sources and in this case I would be using this tech as a supplement rather than primary one.

Take a polaroid everybody. This is a rare instance in which I and The Future are in total agreement.

wonders never cease!

[wander]

As much as I would love to get a solar or wind system, I'd rather pay off my debt and get a piece of land somewhere outside the city. My biggest concern at the moment is my water supply... if the city water goes bad, then we are pretty much done because there is no good way to get around that other than collecting rain water (which I do on occasion in some plastic storage tubs, just to water my potted plants). The rain water I do collect is questionable... it doesn't look drinkable. It's cloudy greenish yellow. We are in a high humidity area, so I'm sure the ecoloblue system would work fine here, at least it gives me something to think about. Thanks for the info all (and Wellspring, I'll let you know for certain! Thanks).

[Beeherder]

Sounds like you know your path and are on it. Would it help to consider matching some small part of your current landscape to the kind of plants that will have a chance (its always just a chance) to survive on the water that comes from the sky at least for growing things to eat. I have several 25 liter water jugs used on outdoor adventures of one type or another so if I felt the need I could probably fill 3 or 4 for short term drinking water or even the bathtub if that seemed appropriate for short term needs. I think long term farming of water from the air but not by distillers or drip extractors by landscapes that hold it when it is most plentiful. The acorn eaters were exceptionally good at this and they did some really fantastic passive agriculture. I hope if their voices be not as strong as they think they need to be they would point us to their favorite guides and teachers. I think it was from then I heard that its the beast you feed that grows, not sure might have gotten that one in several different places.
 
just some thoughts not advice its only an opinion use it if its useful

[The Future]

If you can figure some volumnious storage strategy, the renewable driven humidity system could work.  But you will need a large buffer (big tank) and plenty of a head start (I.e. you need to have you system up, running, proven and filling a tank that will supply you with several weeks worth of water BEFORE the grid collapses)

[Beeherder]

I only have just a very small chunk of this big red rock, less than an acre by a third. By placing seasonal wind fences where the winter winds funnel through dips in the landscape and around the stuff parked on the edge of the lot so that the average flow is perpendicular to the fence. Then By understanding a little of how a wind fence forces wind blown precip up as it passes over and is the deposited favorably in lines along behind the wind fence I use more dips and slumps natural to the landscape some given a little nudge by spade or plant but mostly its already there, to soften areas I plan to garden in some near future with raised beds. Say maybe as soon as i can figure out how to turn the 3 dump truck loads of mixed top soils and road base into real dirt about 3 years I'm guessing maybe 4 if i get involved or since I don't enjoy the wheel barrel quite as much as in times past, yeah 4 years. So during these elapsing years I will adjust in some minor ways that fence to get the snowfalls to land where I want them most, like over my allium patch raised bed about 50 sq ft in size.

Another wind fence is recently planned as permanent and I drop flower heads (fever few recently) along the base of that fence where they will be protected from those blasting winter winds and some moisture may collect there favorably in summer.

So that's how I'm trying to do it small not big. Anyone sees anything that can be improved or that you'd like to know more about my stumbles to be avoided by you please shout out.

[Beeherder]

So I guess that means my large buffer is the big red rock itself.

[opsec]

We need pictures of this.

[Beeherder]

Not until I can get the stains out of my laundry after that predatory bird flew by just yesterday and I had the real deep compelling urge to sling some paint around to you know break up all those sharp easily identifiable in computer analyzed remote imaging that can be done so many many ways no one knows them all. And i think that click just heard was spider sense ON