Author Topic: TSA unmasked. The truth comes out!  (Read 983 times)

Atash Hagmahani

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TSA unmasked. The truth comes out!
« on: June 21, 2009, 12:26:43 AM »
HAH! I have long claimed that the point of TSA is not to keep terrorists out. The borders are wide open! And furthermore, their modus operendi makes it clear that they are focusing on true blue law-abiding patriotic Americans, and furthermore, are much too curious about movement of property across borders.

Do you really think that they suspected this man of being Al Queda?

Some of their REAL functions, as I have long suspected, are CAPITAL CONTROL and SURVEILLANCE of law-abiding Americans.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/06/20/tsa.lawsuit/index.html

WARNING: IMPLIED (edited out) STRONG LANGUAGE. But this is important enough that I'll ignore my own G-rated rule:

Quote
Steve Bierfeldt says the Transportation Security Administration pulled him aside for extra questioning in March. He was carrying a pocket edition of the U.S. Constitution and an iPhone capable of making audio recordings. And he used them.

 On a recording a TSA agent can be heard berating Bierfeldt. One sample: "You want to play smartass, and I'm not going to play your f**king game."

Bierfeldt is director of development for the Campaign for Liberty, an outgrowth of the Ron Paul presidential campaign. He was returning from a regional conference March 29 when TSA screeners at Lambert-St. Louis (Illinois) International Airport saw a metal cash box in his carry-on bag. Inside was more than $4,700 dollars in cash -- proceeds from the sale of political merchandise like T-shirts and books.

There are no restrictions on carrying large sums of cash on flights within the United States, but the TSA allegedly took Bierfeldt to a windowless room and, along with other law enforcement agencies, questioned him for almost half an hour about the money.

Some needed clarifications: there are no LEGAL restrictions on carrying large sums of cash. In practice, the USA has "civil asset forfeiture laws", meaning that YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE CHARGED WITH A CRIME for government agents to SEIZE YOUR PROPERTY. The legal fiction is that YOUR PROPERTY IS CHARGED WITH A CRIME.

However, now I am splitting hairs, because in practice, a lot of extra-legal (outside of the law) policies are in place, and the law is routinely ignored.

 
Quote
The American Civil Liberties Union has taken up Bierfeldt's cause and is suing Secretary of Homeland Security Janet Napolitano, whose department includes the TSA. Their complaint alleges that Bierfeldt was "subjected to harassing interrogation, and unlawfully detained."

Larry Schwartztol of the ACLU said the TSA is suffering from mission creep.

"We think what happened to Mr. Bierfeldt is a reflection that TSA believes passenger screening is an opportunity to engage in freewheeling law enforcement investigations that have no link to flight safety," he said.

Schwartztol believes many other passengers have been subjected to the same kind of treatment, which he claims violates constitutional protections against unlawful searches.
...
 The TSA wouldn't comment on the lawsuit, but said in a statement that the movement of large amounts of cash through a checkpoint may be investigated "if suspicious activity is suspected."

Unbeknownst to the TSA agents, Bierfieldt had activated the record application on his phone and slipped it into his pocket. It captured the entire conversation.

An excerpt:

Officer: Why do you have this money? That's the question, that's the major question.

Bierfeldt: Yes, sir, and I'm asking whether I'm legally required to answer that question.

Officer: Answer that question first, why do you have this money.

Bierfeldt: Am I legally required to answer that question?

Officer: So you refuse to answer that question?

Bierfeldt: No, sir, I am not refusing.

Officer: Well, you're not answering.

Bierfeldt: I'm simply asking my rights under the law.

The officers can be heard saying they will involve the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the Drug Enforcement Administration, and appear to threaten arrest, saying they are going to transport Bierfeldt to the local police station, in handcuffs if necessary.
...
 According to the TSA, "Passengers are required to cooperate with the screening process. Cooperation may involve answering questions about their property. A passenger who refuses to answer questions may be referred to appropriate authorities for further inquiry"

Bierfeldt contends he never refused to answer a question, he only sought to clarify his constitutional rights.

"I asked them, 'Am I required by law to tell you what you're asking me? Am I required to tell you where I am working? Am I required to tell you how I got the cash? Nothing I've done is suspicious. I'm not breaking any laws. I just want to go to my flight. Please advise me as to my rights.' And they didn't."

Quote
Fourth Amendment – Protection from unreasonable search and seizure.

    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

The fifth amendment is usually construed as reserving a right to remain silent when questioned.

I am guessing that such "rights" as might de facto exist are extremely nebulous. I am guessing that in private situations, the Bill of Rights is effectively suspended. (Oh well, it never was enforced very well. Have a look at it, and if you dig just under the surface of history, you will find repeated and chronic violations. They started happening almost immediately after it became law!)
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opsec

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Re: TSA unmasked. The truth comes out!
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2009, 12:21:43 PM »
America has never really been a free country.
"The difference between a pessimist and an optimist is that the pessimist usually has more information"

"Where law ends tyranny begins. Where law begins, tyranny becomes legal"

"Truth is hate to those that hate truth".

Atash Hagmahani

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Re: TSA unmasked. The truth comes out!
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2009, 01:18:20 PM »
I think what we had, Bud, was "wide open spaces". People left each other alone, as long as there really wasn't very much competition, and there wasn't a lot of infrastructure in place yet to try to steal.

Once the country became populated from shore to shore, the regulations, "licensing requirements", taxes, and other forms of economic predation disguised as "sharing and caring" and "war on terrorism" started sneaking in.
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Sniper

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Re: TSA unmasked. The truth comes out!
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2009, 07:15:42 PM »
I travel a lot.  TSA is only a dog and pony show.  Some of these folks get a little power crazy and act like Nazi's.  The feds changed the uniform from a white shirt to a blue one and the cops were really mad about that. Check out the qualifications for the job!  It's too funny actually, it's scary.

It is legal to carry $10K anywhere, anytime.  The mistake the guy made was not willing opening the box.  You gotta fly under the radar.

offdalip

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Re: TSA unmasked. The truth comes out!
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2009, 05:40:49 AM »
I would be suspicious as well of an unopened b@mb ( err, metal canister ), if it was on a flight I was on.
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Atash Hagmahani

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karch03

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Re: TSA unmasked. The truth comes out!
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2009, 07:07:10 AM »
I got offered a job with the TSA a few years back. Didn't take it. I think this instance is a reflection of any law enforcement agency. They all think they are above the law and do things like this because they think the general public does not know there rights. I was told by a police officer who happened to be my professor as well that if you have nothing to hide then allow the questioning or the search and move on. I think under certain circumstances this is a correct approach but on other things such as my home I would disagree.

Mike

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Re: TSA unmasked. The truth comes out!
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2009, 09:16:43 AM »
I refused a search of my car because it was two hours past my bedtime and I needed to get home and get to sleep. 

Law enforcement needs to get used to the idea that our time has already been committed.  If they are going to stop us and talk to us about something, they had better have a really good reason.

opsec

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Re: TSA unmasked. The truth comes out!
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2009, 09:38:34 AM »
Quote
if you have nothing to hide then allow the questioning or the search and move on.

Wrong answer. I only have two things to hide, anything and everything.
"The difference between a pessimist and an optimist is that the pessimist usually has more information"

"Where law ends tyranny begins. Where law begins, tyranny becomes legal"

"Truth is hate to those that hate truth".

karch03

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Re: TSA unmasked. The truth comes out!
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2009, 10:46:47 AM »
I see a story above that could have been avoided by just telling the TSA the truth. If he had nothing to hide then he had nothing to fear. I understand paranoia but I also understand when you are out gunned. Why create a bigger problem and allow yourself to be opened up to greater suspicion and possibly paint a target on your back? It's a ripple affect that could have been avoided. But maybe a lawsuit and money was the end result and not helping to set precedent for those of us that follow. I apologize if I offend anyone but my father taught me to always cooperate with authorities and live to fight another day.

opsec

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Re: TSA unmasked. The truth comes out!
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2009, 11:17:58 AM »
Quote
If he had nothing to hide then he had nothing to fear.

The reason that this doesn't work is because it presumes integrity on the part of whoever is demanding to search him.
"The difference between a pessimist and an optimist is that the pessimist usually has more information"

"Where law ends tyranny begins. Where law begins, tyranny becomes legal"

"Truth is hate to those that hate truth".

Mike

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Re: TSA unmasked. The truth comes out!
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2009, 02:41:32 PM »
I think I want to be in the line behind you guys.

Of course part of being behind somebody is backing them up.

karch03

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Re: TSA unmasked. The truth comes out!
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2009, 07:34:51 PM »
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."


The large locked box of cash would be the probable cause. Once again. I am saying if you are law abiding citizen and you are not selling sawed off shotguns to the Feds then yes you can speak to law enforcment agents without fear. I'm not that paranoid to think that a LEO would do anything and everything to put a small potato like myself away under locka and key......... maybe those who are paranoid have reason to be..... 

opsec

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Re: TSA unmasked. The truth comes out!
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2009, 09:16:02 PM »
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.
"The difference between a pessimist and an optimist is that the pessimist usually has more information"

"Where law ends tyranny begins. Where law begins, tyranny becomes legal"

"Truth is hate to those that hate truth".

The Future

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Re: TSA unmasked. The truth comes out!
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2009, 11:51:56 AM »
karch03 - I agree.  Sort of.  It is made clear from a video posted elsewhere on this site that talking to authorities without a lawyer present can have serious implications for a totally innocent person.  At the same time, I see it as prudent to make a judgement call of what will bring you the least amount of harm in a given situation.  For these types of situation, the only blanket rule worth following is that there is no blanket rule worth following.
Wise selfishness is taking care of everyone else so that they don't bring harm to you.