Author Topic: Need help with solar generator  (Read 1469 times)

offdalip

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Re: Need help with solar generator
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2009, 09:16:14 AM »
Ryder is correct, the Trojan T-120 golf cart batteries are the cheapest and easiest and best to use
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Mike

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Re: Need help with solar generator
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2009, 08:27:09 AM »
It might be best to divide and conquer.
* battery and photovoltaics for laptop and lights.
* solar oven for cooking
* solar hotwater heater for hot water
* and a solar refrigerator for refrigeration?

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=solar-refrigeration


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October 20, 2008 | 21 comments
Solar Refrigeration: A Hot Idea for Cooling
How to build a solar refrigerator: The brighter the sun, the better it works

By Duane Schrag   

Fishermen in the village of Maruata, which is located on the Mexican Pacific coast 18 degrees north of the equator, have no electricity. But for the past 16 years they have been able to store their fish on ice: Seven ice makers, powered by nothing but the scorching sun, churn out a half ton of ice every day.

There's a global scramble to drive down emissions of carbon dioxide: the electricity to power just refrigerators in the U.S. contributes 102 million tons annually. Solar refrigeration can also be inexpensive and it would give the electric grid much-needed relief. Electricity demand peaks on hot summer days—150 gigawatts more in summer than winter in the U.S. (A gigawatt equals on billion watts.) That's almost 1.5 times the generating capacity of all the coal-fired power plants west of the Mississippi River. Further, solar is plentiful. The solar energy hitting 54 square feet (five square meters) of land each year is the equivalent of all the electricity used by one American household, according to data from the National Renewable Energy Laboratory and Energy Information Administration, both part of the U.S. Department of Energy.

Making cold out of hot is easier than one might think. A group of students last year at San Jose State University built a solar-powered ice maker with $100 worth of plumbing and a four-by-eight-foot (1.2-by-2.4-meter) sheet of reflecting steel. No moving parts, no electricity but give it a couple hours of sunshine and it can make a large bag of ice.

The key is the energy exchanged when liquids turn to vapor and vice versa—the process that cools you when you sweat. By far the most common approach, the one used by the refrigerator in your house, uses an electric motor to compress a refrigerant—say, Freon—turning it into liquid. When the pressure created by the compressor is released, the liquid evaporates, absorbing heat and lowering the temperature.

Absorptive chillers like solar refrigerators use a heat source rather than a compressor to change the refrigerant from vapor to liquid. The two most common combinations are water mixed with either lithium bromide or ammonia. In each case, the refrigerating gas is absorbed until heat is applied, which raises the temperature and pressure. At higher pressure, the refrigerant condenses into liquid. Turning off the heat lowers the pressure, causing that liquid to evaporate back into a gas, thereby creating the cooling effect.

As with most technologies, the efficiency of such absorptive refrigeration depends on the degree of engineering (and expense) brought to bear. Single-effect devices have a coefficient of performance of 0.6 to 0.7—that is, they create 60 to 70 Btus (British thermal units) of cooling for every 100 Btus of input heat. That low level of efficiency can be achieved with something as crude as some pipe, a bucket of water, some calcium chloride (as absorbant), ammonia (as refrigerant), and a sheet of shiny metal (the solar collector).

If what you want to do is heat or cool, using solar energy this way is probably more efficient—and certainly cheaper—than converting it first into electricity. "That approach ought to be comparable to photovoltaics, or a little better," said Tom Mancini, program manager for solar power at the Sandia National Laboratories in Albuquerque, N.M.

It would take a fair-size collector—86 square feet (eight square meters), assuming 40 percent panel efficiency—just to deliver the cooling of a small (6,000 Btu per hour or half-ton) window air conditioner. And central air-conditioning units are often 30,000 Btu or more; few homeowners could spare the space for that.

But concerns over collector area depend on location. In the developing world, solar powered ice makers allow locals to store the village's food or medicine without any electricity. For example, in May charitable organization, Heifer International, set up three solar ice makers in remote areas of Kenya. Each will be able to keep 26.5 gallons (100 liters) of milk chilled. More than 500 members of two dairy cooperatives are expected to benefit directly.

Most of the interest in such solar refrigeration in Western countries comes from the commercial, not residential, sectors. Cost is one reason—absorption chiller systems typically cost $7,000 to $10,000 per ton of cooling; one-ton window air conditioners from big box retailers start around $250—but companies can save on electric bill as well as enjoy a more benign environmental image.

Building occupancy patterns is another; most Americans are not at home during the day. "We don't have as much daytime occupancy in residential buildings as in commercial," says Pat Hale, sales manager for Yazaki Energy Systems, in Plano, Tex. Other problems include the expense of retrofitting homes to add plumbing to the attic. And the high temperatures associated with concentrating solar collectors raise liability concerns.

But some entrepreneurs think a residential market nevertheless is emerging. Walter Ross is CEO of Austin Solar AC, a start-up that is testing 36,000 and 60,000 Btu solar-fired chillers. The units provide cooling in summer and heating during winter by just using the sun's heat directly. "We're getting a lot of interest from people who have been using propane for heating," he said. "The biggest issue we run into with these is siting: Most neighborhood associations won't allow these things on your roof."

tigger

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Re: Need help with solar generator
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2009, 02:40:02 AM »
Does anybody want to share their experience with actually building or using a medium or large solar powered system?  Have any members in the US successfully made use of the 30% tax credit or whatever it might have been in previous years?
http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=tax_credits.tx_index
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Photovoltaic systems must provide electricity for the residence, and must meet applicable fire and electrical code requirement.

offdalip

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Re: Need help with solar generator
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2009, 10:27:35 AM »
sure, presently I'm upgrading my system from 2 panels 350W up to 12 panels 2100W.

I'll post some before and after pics....

I'll be taking that tax credit thank you very much.

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Photovoltaic systems must provide electricity for the residence, and must meet applicable fire and electrical code requirement.

All that means is you have to power something in your house with the panels and that the wiring is appropriate for the loads and properly protected. No biggie if you know some electrical skills
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opsec

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Re: Need help with solar generator
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2009, 11:32:55 AM »
Do you have to get a licensed electrician to rubber stamp your work?
"The difference between a pessimist and an optimist is that the pessimist usually has more information"

"Where law ends tyranny begins. Where law begins, tyranny becomes legal"

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offdalip

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Re: Need help with solar generator
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2009, 02:28:01 PM »
depends on where you live.

some HOA's or cities or municipalities do, others don't. Where I live as long as it it up to code it is good to go

what there is are minimum state electrical codes.

As long as you do all the common sense stuff like having good grounded wires, DC disconnects, enclosures, breakers
then you are probably up to code.

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"Events can move from the impossible to the inevitable without ever stopping at the probable"

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse...."

tigger

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Re: Need help with solar generator
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2009, 09:44:25 PM »
I'm looking forward to those before and after pictures.

It seems that this could be a good investment given:
- there's currently a tax credit
- provides a "return" for 30 years or whatever the life of the system
- helps eliminate inflation worries by buying now (though needs to be balanced against future technology advancements and possibly lower prices if there's more production efficiency with more units sold in the future)
- reduces dependence on external energy
- removes some of the worry of rising future energy prices

But, at current prices, I guess it's still hard to justify.

offdalip

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Re: Need help with solar generator
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2009, 10:05:05 AM »
Put up 12X solar panels on the roof yesterday and doing some of the indoor electrical work today.......


2 Kw / hrs

60 Amps

440 V oc, 24 V lc
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"Events can move from the impossible to the inevitable without ever stopping at the probable"

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse...."

opsec

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Re: Need help with solar generator
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2009, 01:06:31 PM »
How much does that cost?
"The difference between a pessimist and an optimist is that the pessimist usually has more information"

"Where law ends tyranny begins. Where law begins, tyranny becomes legal"

"Truth is hate to those that hate truth".

offdalip

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Re: Need help with solar generator
« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2009, 11:56:56 AM »
175 Watt Solarworld panels can go from wholesale $350 to retail $550 each, depending on your connections.
The distributor is in WA.

then there's labor, wiring, inverters, panels, controllers, rail mounts.
A small system can be a few thousand and a large system 10's of thousands
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"Events can move from the impossible to the inevitable without ever stopping at the probable"

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse...."

Ryder

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Re: Need help with solar generator
« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2009, 11:10:43 PM »
The power grid can go down tomorrow but if your solar is up and running you can continue on. More than likely the cost of commercial power will jump then jump higher. If you already have your stand alone system up you are ready. If you wait and wait for better deals etc you will be left out with all the other people.
Gotta learn how to knit socks and mittens if you want to survive in montana.

offdalip

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Re: Need help with solar generator
« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2009, 02:35:45 PM »
Alright, all 12X solar panels are up and mounted on the roof professionally ; they terminated the two sets of  8 AWG at my electrical room after about a 15 foot run.
I hooked that up to the solar disconnect breaker box, a lightning / DC surge arrestor, then to the charge controller and am now making the electrolyte to fill the batteries with.
The inverter will be next to the controller with a fuse and quick disconnect between it and the batteries. Then, I'll hook the inverter to the AC side of my circuits with an AC surge
protector built in.

Tigger, this site may give you some info:

http://www.freesunpower.com/example_systems.php

pics soon!
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"Events can move from the impossible to the inevitable without ever stopping at the probable"

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse...."

tigger

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Re: Need help with solar generator
« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2009, 10:04:54 PM »
Thanks for the pointer.  I keep trying to learn more.

offdalip

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Re: Need help with solar generator
« Reply #28 on: December 19, 2009, 02:00:57 PM »
I took the training wheels off today and took pics, working nominally. post them when the time comes available
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"Events can move from the impossible to the inevitable without ever stopping at the probable"

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse...."

offdalip

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Re: Need help with solar generator
« Reply #29 on: December 19, 2009, 02:03:22 PM »
NiFe's sure bubble alot when they are happy.............
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"Events can move from the impossible to the inevitable without ever stopping at the probable"

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse...."

 

anything